Segunda Caida

Phil Schneider, Eric Ritz, Matt D, Sebastian, and other friends write about pro wrestling. Follow us @segundacaida

Friday, July 11, 2025

Found Footage Friday: BASH 85~!


Great American Bash JCP 7/6/85


Buddy Landel vs. Ron Bass

MD: A twenty minute draw, only a bit cut (we lose some of Buddy's control). I always was partial to this feud so it's nice to get a bit more of it. It filled out the midcard well, just having Bass trying to get revenge on JJ basically for picking a city slicker instead of a country guy. 

This was going long and it had a lot of Buddy getting early stalling and comeuppance. Buddy's body language is almost generational, the way that he scoots through the ropes after taking a shot or gets fired into the corner. He tries to outwrestle Bass and fails, tries to outsneak him and fails, tries to outfight him and definitely fails. When he does take over, it's about grinding Bass down and letting JJ get shots in when he can. The comeback on the floor is fiery and the crowd loves it but it's a prelude to the bell ringing for the draw. Post match, Bass gets his hands on JJ and Buddy tries to intervene only for the two to end up crashing into one another. Satisfying stuff even despite the draw.



Ole Anderson/Arn Anderson vs. Buzz Sawyer/Dick Slater

MD: This was a blast. I love the Sawyer/Slater team, even as babyfaces. Huge energy. They came in hot firing away at the Andersons, with Buzz and his fuzzy boots swinging a title belt around over his head. It was stooging fiery chaos for the first half, with Slater's windmill punches and Buzz running about biting arms and interjecting at every point. He had one charge into the corner where he shot back at high speed with a forearm that was just nuts. 

Eventually the chaos was too much and the ref got distracted so that the Andersons could take over on Slater. Super hot crowd for this as Buzz stomped back and forth on the apron. Some great hope spots and last second cutoffs where an Anderson would lock up the legs. The hot tag was sufficiently hot but things ended pretty abruptly with an elbow drop cheapshot behind the ref's back. Could have used another rotation on the finish but this lived up to my expectations.



Manny Fernandez/Buzz Tyler/Sam Houston vs. Abdullah the Butcher/Superstar Billy Graham/Konga the Barbarian

MD: I haven't talked about what we had and didn't have here but we came in during the heat on the old footage of this one. That's all beatdown on Houston who survives and survives until he's able to get close enough to draw his own guys in and win in the ensuing chaos with a roll up.

All of that is in here and it's pretty good pro wrestling, but we get the front here as well. That was Graham and Konga stooging (as once Abby got in, it would be time for the heels to take over). And it was very good. This is some of the best I've seen 80s Graham look. He was flying around way more than usual and leaning hard into the goofing. Konga did his share as well honestly. And all of that was fine because it set the stage for Houston getting destroyed. The fans absolutely loved the finish. It really seemed at this point that they could make Houston into a big deal in the years to come.



Paul Jones vs. Jimmy Valiant (Dog Collar)

MD: Previously we just had the opening feint and the finish here. The feint was great, as Jones hemmed and hawed and refused to put the dog collar on before trying to slip it on Abby instead. That didn't work but it drew attention so Abby could stab Valiant in the forehead. Previously we had commentary over that but here we got to clearly hear a scream from the crowd and that's the sort of thing that makes all of this better. 

Jones controlled, smacking a bloody valiant with the chain wrapped around his hand. He made sure to bask in it and taunt the crowd. Said crowd went up huge for Valiant's comeback as he manipulated Jones with the length of the chain. He got the sleeper on. Abby tried to interfere. Valiant was too smart for it and he got the win before Abby unloaded on him. Pretty enjoyable piece of business overall.



Russians vs. Road Warriors

MD: This couldn't have been more heel-in-peril. Not only was it Krusher and Ivan, Nikita wasn't even there because he was prepping for the main event. Even though the Roadies were the AWA champions, only the JCP titles were on the line (which given the finish made no sense anyway).

And the Warriors took the brunt of this. Maybe Ivan would get an eye rake or Krusher would get a few body shots in, but then they'd miss an elbow drop and would get swept right back under again. Animal press slammed Krusher into the top rope, then pressed Ivan off the top. Hawk got in on the action. In no case did they really get them up but the struggle made it work nonetheless. It was a bit of diminishing returns though.

They had a sort of convoluted bit to let the Russians take over and they kept control with frantic, almost desperate quick tags. Even then, when the hot tag came, it was while the Roadies were taking shots. They just didn't matter. Things devolved quickly after that as both sides used chairs. It get having the Russians finally look vulnerable but a straight up Clash of the Titans might have been more palatable. 


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Friday, November 06, 2020

New Footage Friday: POWER TWINS EXPLODE! MASCARITA! FLAIR! OLE! GRUNDY'S EXPLODE! VAMP! CHICANA!


 Ric Flair vs. Ole Anderson NWA 10/17/81

MD: I've never heard anyone talk about this one, so it's new enough for our purposes. We don't have nearly enough 80-81 babyface Flair for my liking, so every bit helps. There's a different energy to him than in later years, or the same energy but channeled differently. It's a strap match where they spend the first chunk with Ole trying to grind on holds (maybe because this followed what was likely a chop-heavy Wahoo vs Piper match) and then later escalate to the win attempts and using the strap as the weapon. The crowd and the later match violence make the earlier parts ok even if they're not what you immediately want. They flub it once and Ole touches all corners and that gives the fans some confusion but everyone recovers and the run-in finish still feels pretty satisfying. 

PAS: I always enjoy when Ole works an arm, he has a really workmanlike sadism to him, like a cruel prison guard in a movie.  He doesn't really care this is a strap match, he is going to tear up the arm and there isn't much anyone can do to stop him. Babyface Flair has a real kinetic energy too him, and his fired up comeback is like something you would expect from Eddie Guerrero. The strapping near the end was nasty stuff and I like how both guys got more desperate. This was a really good match, a chance to see Flair against a rare opponent and see how he adjusts to a different type of match. 


Vampiro Casanova/Sangre Chicana vs. Solomon Grundy/Aaron Grundy 92

MD: Hey, if we count Flair and Ole as cousins, this is a family feud week on NFF. This was a parejas match where the losing team had to then fight in an apuestas match. Aaron is Mike Shaw and he starts out hugging Vampiro before going full rudo on him. Chicana bumped and stooged for Grundy well enough but he was definitely the least featured guy in this one. I liked Shaw's vertical big splash foul as it felt like a very appropriate lucha finisher. They built well to Grundy vs Grundy though there's never a lot to these post-tag apuesta matches. This was fun but not as fun as a straight tag between these guys would have been.

PAS: You want to see more Sangre Chicana in the mix when you look at the on paper match up, and we got a whole heck of a lot of Vampiro. I enjoyed the Grundy's use of their fat, and I agree the splash foul was great stuff. Still this underwhelmed for a big stips match, and the final showdown was much more about the outside interference than two fat guys in overalls hitting each other. 

ER: I actually thought this was a great Vampiro performance, which isn't really a sentence that I find myself typing that often. Vampiro bumped all around the ring and ringside for Aaron Grundy's fatness, and when it was time to fire back he threw actual good punches and then shook his fist out after! It is wrestling fact that any wrestler who shakes out their fist after a punch - regardless of quality of punch - is automatically a Good Wrestler. There are zero examples countering this. You shake out your fist after a punch, you are good. Similarly, if you are a heel and point to your head after doing basically anything, you are automatically a Good Wrestler. This whole thing is chaos, as the Grundy's are attacking each other and Vampiro is attacking Chicana, loved when Aaron hit Solomon on the apron with a chair and then turned right around and hit Vampiro. This is a man with a strategy! The chaos was fun even though it made for a bad traditional match, I loved how the big splashes looked and loved the constantly shifting allegiances. Also, looking at Shaw, and it's unfathomable that Vince didn't get excited seeing him as an overalls wearing hillbilly. That is a wrestler look Vince adores, and it's so weird he opted to turn him into Bastion Booger, with gear that just cannot be explained by anyone. Shaw looked cool with the shaved head and beard, but apparently Vince saw him with the shaved head and thought "You know? Ditch the beard. Also, the eyebrows."


Konnan/Mascarita Sagrada/Wendi Richter/Power Twin 1 vs. Mario Savoldi/Espectrito/Madusa/Power Twin 2 IWAS 7/93

MD: Absolute blast. There was so much going on here, so many spots, so much riffing and goofing, with Ted Petty (unmasked) being a grade A stooge. You could hear a ton of chatter here, and some of that was Konnan directing traffic, but a lot of it ended up sounding like a Popeye cartoon or Army of Darkness or whatever, with Madusa muttering at everyone and just all sorts of foolishness. Power Twins explode was not something I knew I wanted to see but they really leaned into it. This was all over the place, from some really good mini action to Madusa just ambling around the ring with no one letting her do anything, and it fell apart multiple times, but it was so wildly entertaining that it was exactly what we needed during this insane week.

PAS: This was a bunch of fun, really the perfect kind of touring match to bring to a place like the Philippines. I am really surprised that these kind of AAA mixed matches never caught on in the US, great way to fill a card and multi man matches are a great way to hide limited workers. I think Power Twin vs. Power Twin was my favorite part, as they had almost a Brazos interaction with each other with both guys alternating as the aggrieved Super Porky. I thought the heels playing catch with Mascarita was fun, and the payoff of Espectrito being too heavy to lift was great. Fun Petty performance too, it is strange he ended up only getting to big leagues late in his career, he was such a talented performer.  

ER: I agree with Phil, the AAA man/woman/mini/exotico match was one of my favorite match formats in lucha, and always played great in front of non-lucha crowds (I always remember the great version of that match that happened in Hustle). This one is a bizarre and cool twist on that format as it replaces the exotico on each side a freaking POWER TWIN! Adding a large adult twins to either side of a multiman just automatically makes a match recommendable. One unheralded great thing about the Power Twins was that not only did they wear matching singlets and have the same shaped body (I've never understood that, do they eat they exact same meals and do the exact same exercises and walk the same number of steps? How are twins this old still this identical?) but they are also balding in the EXACT same way and that rules. It's easy to like a match where it looks like everyone is having a fun time together, and these people were clearly loving performing in front of this crowd. The fans ate up all the Sagrada/Espectrito exchanges, and they brought a lot of unique shtick that really impressed me. What impressed me was the fact that it seemed like everyone in the match was wholly involved in the shtick, they were all working the bit. Often you get one guy who is good at it (and here that was Ted Petty and stunningly Madusa) and the others work a straight match and let that guy work his shtick. But we had some great group effort on bits here, and that's where the match excelled. I loved Madusa's chatter, she was so good at setting up cheating or setting up Petty to do something fun. Ted Petty worked this match like a more pratfall comedy version of The Sheik, and well, obviously that was going to be great. My favorite thing was when he ran into the ring to attack a Power Twin, and then immediately after paused, wondering if he had attacked the correct Twin,. Honestly the main thing this was missing - and would have been legendary - is if the Power Twins had switched teams at some point and then did a "we're upset because nobody noticed" bit. 


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Friday, March 01, 2019

New Footage Friday: Outlaws, Ladd, Piratenkampf, Kawada, Ishikawa, Shinzaki, Watts, Andersons, Thunderbolt

Dick Murdoch/Dusty Rhodes vs. Sailor Art Thomas/Ernie Ladd AWA 12/16/72

MD: This was on the Luce footage that was out there, but I haven't seen it and it's a classic match/angle. I'm pretty sure there's a reality where we talk about Dusty Rhodes as one of the great heatseeking heels up there with Buddy Rose and Negro Casas and Tully and Piper and whoever else. You watch a match like this and you can't help but feeling robbed of hundreds of matches where Dusty was just pissing off the crowd. He had this way of bobbing in and out, of taking up space and real estate in parts of the ring he shouldn't be in, only to dash back out to the apron. He was a disruptive force. Murdoch's great here too, but we've seen more of that. Maybe he spits a little more here, but he's the Murdoch we know already. Ladd was an amazing monster face. Thomas was pretty much all bearhugs but he was just about fifty at this point. I assume it worked for the crowd. As good at the turn at the end was and as great as conniving heel Ladd ultimately is, it's a bit like Dusty. It's a shame we don't have years and years more to see the other side.

PAS: The match was clipped up enough that it was hard to get a sense of it as a whole (we jump right to Thomas and Ladd arguing, without getting a sense why for example), but we did get to see a bunch of cool moments and performances. It is a real trip to see Dusty do all of his Dusty mannerisms as a heel, and it works just as well. Lots of bearhugs and headlock punches by the face team, but these are a great pair of stooging heels to be placed in headlocks and bearhugs. Man I wish I had a time machine and video camera to capture everything for all four guys.


Ole/Gene Anderson vs. Bill Watts/Thunderbolt Patterson GCW 6/24/77

MD: So here's something. We've gotten our hands on a lot of 70s territory wrestling over the last five years, be it Houston or what the Network has dropped, or new Memphis or dusted off CWF or what. As such, we're always able to reevaluate certain notions. One notion I always had was that old school traditional tag team wrestling was all the Arn/Tully mode: cutting off the ring, grabbing a hold, working a limb, distracting the ref, doubleteaming, the grindier version of the Southern tag, I guess. I think we've found that hasn't always been the case. It wasn't usually quite so locked down. With the Andersons, however, it was, and it's telling, then, how much they manage to stand out in that regard. I'm not going to go out on a limb and say 100% that they were more the exception than the rule, but relative to a lot of what I've seen lately, they felt exceptional here. There's not a lot else to say about this. Thunderbolt looked better than he would a few years down the line. Watts was Watts, portraying himself as tough as nails John Wayne and getting over for it. The finish was such BS that you could see the cops getting into position before it happened. They could have gone with the visual pin counted by Watts and just had it be a DQ after that, but instead they let the heels go over. The sound on this was virtually non-existent but I bet the heat would have been amazing.


Franz van Buyten vs. Frank Merckx (Belgium 1984)

MD: Sometimes you watch a wrestler for the first time and that ends up just being your image of him forever. That was the case with van Buyten. I love the Andre/Van Buyten/Ali Bey vs Isamu Teranishi/Rusher Kimura/Thunder Sugiyama IWE match from 72. It's just this amazing lengthy comedy match where van Buyten comes across as the most put upon guy in the world, a Belgian Basil Fawlty of pro wrestling. I've seen spatterings of matches with him since, usually from at least ten years later, and they're much more on brand Segunda Caida fare.

This is right down our alley. A Piratenkampf match (which if you're not familiar is a combination flag/chain match, something pretty unique to Europe). A huge chunk of this is Merckx choking or decimating van Buyten's face with the chain with Franz mounting heated comebacks only to end up back in that spot. If you're going to work hope spots in and out of a hold, having the hold be your face getting torn apart by a chain is pretty compelling. They have time to really let this build and lots of "outs" for believable comebacks as Merckx needs to allow distance to get the flag. It means when the actual comeback comes and van Buyten gets to bloody Merckx, the fans are more than ready for it.

I have no idea how much of this exists, waiting to be uncovered, but it does feel like one of those underexposed troves.

ER: Ah yes, the guy in 1984 Belgium who was taping an old man pirate battle. I love the feel of all this, tons of real grappling struggle, with the big bonus of a heavy chain being raked across eyeballs, noses, and gums. The crowd is absolutely on fire for this, and I really loved the cutaways to the crowd, filled with Belgian children and teenagers all going wild for two older guys bloodying each other up with a chain. It's so wonderful to me that this idea of pro wrestling is a form of entertainment that somehow was picked up and accepted all across the world, a real touchstone that people of all upbringings could respond to and get excited for. It's 25 minutes of two guys choking each other with a chain in a violent capture the flag battle, and boys and girls of all ages are hot for it. Merckx is a guy I've never seen before and for all I know I'm being tricked into spelling his name wrong. But he sure knows how to rearrange van Buyten's face with a chain, and we get some great handheld closeups of the chain smashing across the bridge of van Buyten's nose, ripping across his mouth, and great shots of Merckx throwing hammerfist blows with that chain wrapped around his fist. A lot of this match is basically in a phone booth, two guys locked together trying to choke each other to death with a chain. There aren't even many bumps, with one notably big one that sends van Buyten over the ropes to the floor, and I do wish we got more striking, as the blood and strikes don't really come until we're 20 minutes in. But that final visual was fantastic pro wrestling, with van Buyten climbing the buckles and reaching for that flag, holding the flag pole in a pose like he was planting the flag at Iwo Jima, while Merckx lies on the mat trying to pull him down off the top. I absolutely adore these snapshots into a pro wrestling culture that I didn't know existed.

PAS: There is something so grimy about a chain being raked across someones eyes with this yellowed film quality. The whole thing is kind of icky in the best possible way. Merkx is a burly barrel chested guy and makes this whole thing feel like a fist fight, this is van Buyten's match, and he has a bunch of interesting ways to work within the oddball gimmick. Actually climbing a pole with a chain is cooler visually then trying to touch turnbuckles, and I really liked how van Buyten used leverage and the finish was really exciting. Loved this, and Europe is really an undiscovered mine.


Toshiaki Kawada/Maunakea Mossman vs. Jinsei Shinzaki/Yuki Ishikawa AJPW 7/11/00

PAS: This is the only time Ishikawa and Kawada ever faced off, and you get the sense in an alternate universe this would be an all time legendary match up. It is really fun to see the indy team slotted into an All Japan tag, Shinzaki toned down a bunch of flourishes and really went in on uppercuts and leg whips, he and Kawada have some really fun exchanges, including Shinzaki doing his praying top rope shoulder block directly into a Kawada face kick. Shinzaki and Ishikawa sensibly tried to keep Mossman in the ring and went after his knee, Ishikawa had some very cool leglocks, although he left himself open to a Kawada jumping kneedrop so nasty that I imagine it made him nostalgic for Ikeda. I would have liked to see a bit more of an aggro finishing run to make it a real classic, but what a fun treat to show up randomly like this.

ER: Man, Phil is really underselling that this is the only time Ishikawa and Mossman ever faced off. I think a bunch of us were aware this match happened, because Ishikawa really only worked All Japan a handful of times, and knowing there was potentially a match opposite Kawada was just a cruel tease. And now we have it and it's still kind of a cruel tease. It's a long match (nearly 25 minutes, even with some clipping in a couple spots) but doesn't really ramp up to much, with the last few minutes not really feeling any different than things that happened in the first 10 minutes; and there were some odd stumbles or miscommunications or power plays, like Kawada popping right up from a Shinzaki powerbomb, causing Shinzaki to start selling giving a powerbomb, and then Kawada notices Shinzaki is selling for some reason so then kinda just sits down. So there were some awkward moments. And, Yuki Ishikawa is in this thing far less than the other three guys, including a really long stretch at the finish where he was just kinda watching from the floor after getting dumped there by Kawada minutes before. So, the match has issues, it isn't great, but I still would have watched it with a smile had I known all of those things ahead of time. It was totally worth it to see the moments of Kawada and Ishikawa squaring off and rattling jawbones. Ishikawa has such powerful elbow strikes, these short unwavering blows right to the jaw, and Kawada is a guy who is going to react great after getting his jaw rattled. I liked Team Indy working over Mossman's leg, though I wish it would have gone somewhere more interesting. Mossman is a guy with some cool kicks, and clearly those kicks were going to happen no matter what, and I loved Ishikawa eventually catching one at chest level and dropping down into a kneebar. Kawada had several fun bits with Shinzaki, my favorite being him doing an absolutely all time Kawada sell after taking an enziguiri and then stumbling slowly backwards halfway across the ring before plopping on his butt. It's my favorite Kawada sell, and this is one of the best ways I've seen him utilize it.

MD: Coming in behind Phil and Eric here, this was NOT the only time that Shinzaki and Kawada faced each other. That said, what's going to stick with me on this one months from now, past Shinzaki and Ishikawa absolutely demolishing Mossman's leg, are the interactions between the two. Yeah, that's not why we looked forward to this. That's not why we put this at the top of the list. There was just this amazing dissonance to it, as if the existed in a slightly different reality. Kawada had this tendency of just stopping before Shinzaki was about to land something. With Kawada, you have to suspend disbelief far less than with other wrestlers (that's true with Ishikawa too, for instance, which was part of the appeal). That's the long and short of it, right? That's one reason we all love these guys. That's why I sort of get short circuited by the mid-late 90s AJPW when it gets just a little too kickout/excess heavy. With Shinzaki on the other hand, there's an additional level of suspension necessary. Everything is a bit more stylized and affectated. That, in and of itself, is fine. It can be great. If you're willing to go along for the ride, it can be a hell of a ride. Kawada rightfully wasn't willing to go along for the ride and that made for a bunch of great little spots of him just accepting no nonsense, even as Shinzaki kept going back to the well. That part ended up way more enjoyable than you'd think.

Overall though, the match itself was problematic at times. It was a lot of the same, even with the limbwork. The clips meant that we lost a transition, which is the truest sin of all clips. I don't feel like the finishing stretch had enough to it. It was feels like a great find, just maybe one that wasn't as great for the reasons we were hoping for.


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Wednesday, September 07, 2016

Last Battle of Atlanta! Wildfire Tommy Rich v. Buzz Sawyer

PAS: Of the last couple of years there has been an explosion of awesome historic footage showing up, from Dataintcash uploading early 80s Sangre Chicana handhelds, to the NWA Classics motherload, now WWE network shows the fuck up and uploads maybe the holiest of all holy grails. As a match I think it is pretty great but a step below the absolute stone cold bloodbath classics of the 80's. I loved the opening, with Buzz smashing his hand on the cage and Rich nuking his arm a moment later trying for an elbow. Buzz takes over and smashes Rich's head into the cage. Tommy Rich is the greatest bleeder in wrestling history, a true Beethoven of blood, and he goes from nothing to horror movie almost immediately. From that point on we get a toe to toe brawl, with Sawyer and Rich throwing really great punches and spraying blood on each other. Finish was a little flat though, with both guys passing out and Rich throwing his arm over Sawyer. Didn't feel like it built to a crescendo, it just kind of stopped. I also felt we needed a more aggressive Buzz Sawyer. Rich was awesome in this, but Buzz seemed a bit subdued for Buzz. I think if we had gotten the intense unstoppable Buzz of the Hacksaw feud we would have had an all timer.  We did get a bonus match with Ole Anderson and Paul Ellering have another neat bloody brawl, Ole is really great as a babyface and is great at laying out a beating and taking one, took such a beating that he got weird rips in his pants. Loved the finish here with an awesome Frye v. Takayama exchange between the two. While this was an A rather then an A+ it was still such a treat to see it show up.

ER: Unexpected footage dumps are always exciting. Phil didn't even mention the All Japan uploads that arrived one day from a devoted Japanese Terry Funk fan, gifting us with a few new Funk/Hansen match-ups, several unseen Funk singles matches, some new Crusher Blackwell, weird mid-tourney RWTL matches, just a trove of fun stuff. And with the WWE Network now having existed for over 2 years, it was beginning to look like they had no interest in digging into their assuredly deep tape vault to give subscribers some deep dig treasure. And then came an out of the blue announcement that wasn't related to any anniversary, just a decision to drop a small collection of little seen footage on everybody. And after years or tape trading hoaxes and WWE vault speculation, all of us dorks finally got to see the Last Battle of Atlanta. And? I ended up enjoying the Ole vs. Ellering segment more. But really the whole segment is wonderful. Rich and Buzz are great brawlers, obviously, and both know how to bleed (especially Rich, as Phil perfectly noted), and Buzz might be my favorite guy when it comes to flying into the side of a cage. The match had a weird...professionalism? Understanding? Something about it didn't feel like a feud ender. It felt a little more like a couple of worn out guys giving it one last go. I did love the moments of reckless aggression that lead to the tides turning, big missed moves that left an opening for either guy: Rich missing that big awesome fistdrop of the top, Buzz going whole hog on an elbowdrop that sees Tommy sitting out of the way at juuuust the right time. The cage bumps are fast and violent, both men fight on their knees in one of the all time great moments for that spot, just throwing everything they had at each other from close range, and Rich uses a piledriver in a really great way, almost an opportunistic, unexpected piledriver. It's all really good stuff.
Ellering gets let out of his cage, checks on Sawyer, and then Ole steps into the ring dressed like every angry guy with something to say at the union hall. And this one feels like a real feud ender. It's messy and not totally even, but it's awesome. This is one of my favorite Ole performances. I don't think I've ever actually seen babyface Ole and it totally suits him, at least in this specific instance. He takes some spills into the cage, his jeans rip a bunch as he rolls around and stomps Ellering, and suddenly he looks like everybody's dad, if everybody's dad got in a crazy fight at the town harvest festival parade. Babyface Ole really fought like a man of the people, and it was great. After the match Jake Roberts comes in all lean and menacing and wearing what might be a tight Pro Wrestling Illustrated t-shirt. He whips Ole with several mean belt shots, and whenever the poor ref would intervene then that guy would get whipped even worse. At one point the ref got whipped right in the face. The whole thing was quite the spectacle, the cleanness of the video footage was spectacular, and we can now as a group cross another one off the list.

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