Sometimes Phil and I Disagree

Phil and I like each other and have very similar tastes in wrestling. We do not, however, have identical tastes in wrestling. If we did then our site would be a little more pointless. We agree on matches the majority of the time, and have for as long as we've known each other (some 12 years at this point). Our working Match of the Year list is a two person democracy. If one of us loves a match but the other doesn't think it's list-worthy, then it doesn't make our list. I think over the course of the year that will make the list more unique than others. For example if many people, including one of us, think a match is ****, but the other thinks it's **, then it won't be on our list. At the same time, if both of us think a match is good and ***, then it's on (we don't really work in star ratings, just using that as an example).

Recently there were two matches that one of us found list-worthy, and the other did not. One match that Phil really dug and I did not, and another that I dug and Phil did not. Again, this is not extremely uncommon for us, but it usually doesn't happen this close together, with opinions varying to this degree. Often if one of us thinks a match is list-worthy, the other likes it, but doesn't feel it's quite good enough to make a list. In both of these instances though, each of us just flat out didn't like the match presented to us. So we thought it would be interesting to present each match and our opposing views on each of them.

Titan v. Niebla Roja 6/1

My original thoughts from the TV review:

ER: Damn, I thought this was pretty great, and it was kind of unexpectedly so. Not an insult to each guy, but I wasn't too excited for this one on paper, but they shut my face up. Roja is a guy I find fine in trios but I couldn't tell you much about him. He doesn't stay in the old memory banks too long. I don't think I've ever had a problem with him in a trios, but I've never come away telling Phil he needs to check out some Niebla Roja. Titan is a guy who can be alternately impressive and frustrating in trios, often one within seconds of the other. So the thought of them having a long title match just brought up bad memories of awful Volador singles matches. But I thought this was awesome. Even with all of the great Busca matches happening this year, a lot of CMLL singles matches have been lacking a certain drama, and I thought this match had that in spades. Nearfalls were actually used great, with the most engaging submission tease I remember seeing in lucha in ages. We get some snug matwork to start which I wasn't really expecting, especially cool was Roja forcing Titan to the mat by holding his wrist and stepping down on his arm. Once they went into "big spot" mode I fully expected it to devolve into awful "Big move -> 2.9 count -> Lie on mat breathing heavy -> Repeat" that so many lucha title matches have fallen victim to, but it never did. Drama kicked in and there weren't just meaningless pinfalls, it really felt like both guys pulling out all the stops to try and win the Mexican Welterweight title. Titan has some beautiful ranas and headscissors and he breaks one out from apron to floor that was a real beauty. They work in a convincing knee injury spot and honestly I can't remember the last time any sort of "work the limb" spots in lucha ended up actually going anywhere. But this comes up as a theme throughout the whole match. Roja flapjacks Titan and kicks him on the way down, in a spot that both make look great. Roja does it again right after, and Titan catches the kick on the way down and snaps off a nasty dragon screw. Roja's knee keeps coming into play for the rest of the match, leading to some cool submission attempts from Titan. Titan ramping up the tightness of knee submissions trying to break Roja was one of my favorite wrestling moments of the year. He starts with a cool roll through knee bar, but Roja makes the ropes. He pulls him to the center, locks on a modified figure four, Roja doesn't give. Titan just keeps adjusting the submission, moving into more painful and painful submissions, and it's awesome. There are plenty of impressive dives and flips, and Roja is great at playing off Titan's occasional silliness with rudo tactics. At one point when Titan is doing a bunch of "here hold my hand while I bounce on the ropes a bunch", Roja just lets go and leaves Titan standing on the middle of the top rope. They pause and Roja does a funny "well get on with it!" and Titan ranas him. On the down side the match did peak a little too early and went a couple minutes too long. If it had ended with the submission attempts it would have been better, but instead they worked through those and ended a little flat just moments later. Still, not only did this more than exceed my expectations, I thought it was a great match.

PAS: I didn't see much of the positives that Eric did here at all. Titan has some pretty spots, but when he isn't in there with a master rudo, he gets very much in a do something.. look around.. do something else.. no real flow. Roja isn't particularly good either and the in between parts of this match looked really amateur hour. I thought some of the early mat work looked good, but it was worked at 3/4 speed like they were trying to practice it for a later match, it wasn't slow counter matwork like you might see Panther or Navarro do, but fast exchanges done a beat too slow. I did like the knee submission stuff, but the finish run was not good and felt like the emotionless stuff you seen in your lesser muscled up US Indy wrestling.

Virus v. Fuego 6/15

Phil's original thoughts:

PAS: Nothing I love more in current wrestling then a Virus title match, and this is a great example of that genre. Fuego is a pretty generic technico, but is skilled on the mat and the opening mat work was very good, with Virus spinning Fuego around into multiple submissions and pinning attempts and Fuego looking like he belonged there. I really Fuego hitting two topes in a row in the second fall, both looked great and I dug the idea of going right back at him after cracking him the first time. The finish run was great too, with both guys going for roll ups and submissions before Virus hits a gory bomb and rocking chair submission for the duke. Really hoping I get to see Virus mix it up with the new group of Busca de la Idolo guys, I think we could have some classics.

ER: I did not love this match. What's cruel, is that I loved the primera. It had some of Virus' best matwork of the year, really established his dominance over Fuego, and had other great moments like Virus plastering him with a brutal thrust headbutt from the apron. I was into it. I was excited for it. It was as advertised. But then my god would it just not end. And through most of this match Fuego just looked flat out bad. I thought he was a fine counterpoint to Virus' early mat stuff, and the two dives were a cool touch. But by the end of this Virus had to put himself into Fuego's submissions. I really hate matches where one guy takes his 50% up front and the other guy goes on his run right after. The tercera especially felt sluggish to me, with none of the momentum shifts making sense. And it wasn't just Fuego in the tercera, but Virus looked downright bored. No emotion, no rudoing, just mindlessly going through the moves waiting for his turn. I felt zero drama whatsoever in the tercera and it felt like all of the heatless 2.9 count lucha main events that I can't stand. This match was even more disappointing to me since it started on a high and was just a slow and painful death afterwards. Did a Fuego match really need 20+?