Segunda Caida

Phil Schneider, Eric Ritz, Matt D, Sebastian, and other friends write about pro wrestling. Follow us @segundacaida

Friday, June 19, 2015

MLJ: Dragon Lee vs Virus/Casas 1: Cachorro, Hechicero, Virus vs Barbaro Cavernario, Dragon Lee, Negro Casas

2014-05-23 @ Arena México
Cachorro, Hechicero, Virus vs Cavernario, Dragon Lee, Negro Casas


I enjoyed looking at some Titan matches and I thought it made sense to fill in my knowledge gap on Dragon Lee, who is probably the wrestler with the most buzz out of CMLL this year so far. I've seen very little and certainly not enough to make an argument so I thought I'd do this the way I usually do: I'd pick a couple of matches to build to and then watch everything I could related to it, even if they weren't matches directly in a build. The two logical choices are Lee's recent victory over Virus for the CMLL World Lightweight Championship and his defeat to Negro Casas in the 2015 Leyenda de Plata. Looking at any time in the last year when he encountered one or the other leads to quite a few matches but maybe he's worth the attention. I could have gone with the Kamaitachi feud instead but that's a lot less interesting to me than him up against two maestros that I really enjoy.

This trios was one of the most talked about matches of 2014. It ranked #17 here on SC, and #16 on Voices of Wrestling. OJ was cooler on it but he was the only one. It was the highlight match of last year's Busca and in that regard is a fairly topical one to start with. I'm pretty sure that most people reading this have seen it so I'm not going to go too deep. I will say that it had a very clear structure, with the initial pairings in the primera leading to a picking up of the pace and a finish, some real (and surprising) heat in the segunda and a comeback to even the falls, and then both sides going all out in the tercera.

I'll talk about what I liked a lot first. This was the mentors + final four showcase trios. Cachorro was moved from Casas' side to Virus' side, as Casas had 3 to Virus' 1 at this point. This was striking since Virus' side was the one that was going to play rudo in the match. I don't think they wanted to move Cavernario over, even though that would have made more sense as Cavernario and Casas were (already I think? developing?) stablemates and it made some sense to move Cachorro given the Panther family's rivalry with Casas. That meant that, when things turned to heat and triple team beatdowns in the segunda, Cavernario ended up playing babyface. Cachorro ended up playing rudo. I thought both of them were fun in their roles, with Cachorro being initially hesitant but eventually dickish (with just one thing I really didn't like). Cavernario was a revelation, though. I've seen him in matches against other rudos, but not any where he really had to play the good guy. As good as he is as a rudo, he has the potential to be the best "hot tag" in wrestling with the way he throws himself into his offensive flurries. I especially loved him tossing Zacarias up and down after they won the segunda. That they worked a much more traditional match than they could have meant that it had heat and meaning and resonance so that when the bombs started coming in the tercera, there was some emotional weight behind it all. Wrestling doesn't need that to be great but it sure as hell helps.

I thought the primera's opening exchanges were smartly worked. They paired the quite green Dragon Lee (more on that later) with Virus and Cachorro with Casas. Hechicero was a ringer in this, of course, and he ended up with Cavernario. The maestros led their opponents through the wringer. Their opponents performed admirably considering. There were some good early dives and Hechicero took a Hamrick bump (more on that later too). The beatdown could have gone an extra minute or two in the segunda but ultimately it was fine and when the comeback came, it was good enough that you just didn't care. The tercera was just pure excitement with some crazy bumps and dives and sequence that happened so quickly and in such quick succession that it was a huge treat. It's very understandable why people went nuts over this match.

Now, on to what I didn't like. The biggest complaint I've seen (and it's never that big) was that Dragon Lee botched some things. I think his last exchange in the finish was not so great and his code red-reversed into a powerbomb that ended the primera wasn't either. That's fine though, perfectly fine. The guy was only training for what, a year at this point? He was so young and so green. I don't think he was some sort of "best in the world" candidate like some people were claiming after the Busca, but he made a few minor missteps in a hugely complicated match. Who cares? Even a match like this is about more than just execution, much of which was good throughout the match. More important to me by far was that he held his own with Virus in the primera, albeit at a slightly slower pace than someone else might have gone in his place. What impressed me, more than the matwork, was showing a ton of intensity in a stare off at the end of their exchange. You can't teach that.

There were a couple of bits of repetition I didn't like much. Cachorro did a very admirable job as a rudo. I really enjoy Blue Panther as a rude in his earlier work so I wouldn't mind if Cachorro/The Panther ended up veering that way at some point too. He was spirited in the beatdown and played along with his partners. That said, there were two moments in the tercera where he stopped everything and tried to get the crowd riled in that Rush vs Negro Casas way (first vs Dragon Lee and second vs Cavernario). I thought the first was good but the second was diminishing returns and overkill. It happened many minutes later and the first had ended with the crazy arm drag bump over the top. They weren't really going to top that so maybe he shouldn't have tried for the riling again. The match also had two Hamrick bumps through the ropes, which felt like one too many. I get that it was the tercera that everyone loved, but I could have really lived with a couple less minutes of that and a couple more in the beatdown in the segunda just to build up the tension for the comeback. I think that would would have worked better for me.

So this was really fun, had a lot of good stuff, and personally, I thought it was a huge accomplishment, given the age and inexperience of some of the guys in the ring. I'm not sure I'm as high on it as a lot of the people who watched it though and I feel much quicker to qualify it as "great for what it was."

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Monday, May 18, 2015

MLJ: Cavernario vs Titan 1: Blue Panther, Cachorro, Titán vs Cavernario, Felino, Mr. Niebla

Aired 2014-07-12
Taped 2014-07-08 @ Arena México
Blue Panther, Cachorro, Titán vs Cavernario, Felino, Mr. Niebla


I'm dropping everything I've been doing for this. Thus was the power of the recent Barbaro Cavernario vs Titan title match. People really talked it up and while I haven't had a chance to see it yet, I figured it was about time I did a focus on something very up to date.

I'll be honest that Titan is a tecnico that I've seen a bit of, but just a bit, and in what I've seen, I didn't really have the strong need to look for more. I know I'm less high on people like Valiente than most (and certainly Volador, Jr., but I think none of us are super high on him).

I'm sure he hits his moves well, that he's smooth, that he's dynamic. What I don't know is whether he hits the marks I really care about too though, his character work and making those moves matter, and storytelling. I haven't seen enough though, so I don't know, but hey, he's touted highly by a lot of people and I'm looking forward to figuring it out.

I wanted to start after the Busca last year because that's been covered heavily and some of these mid-card trios haven't as much. I'll probably be avoiding tournaments because no one wants to watch tournament lucha. So the plan is to watch everything that they've done  together in the last year or so ending with their recent title match.

First on the docket is Blue Panther, Cachorro, and Titan vs La Pesta Negra. I'd rather we have Casas in this instead of Felino or Niebla, but neither were too offensive here. Felino had his working boots on and Niebla's stooging was a little more tightly focused than usual due to Panther reining him in.

A lot of these matches are going to be fun, mid-card lucha trios and that was the case here. The primera was enjoyable enough. Felino and Cachorro did well together, with a few leglocks and clean breaks. BP and Cavernario did as well (And I liked that they put the young guys in with the vets instead of just matching them up), with their share of limb grabbing and positioning. The second Blue Panther got the advantage the rudos swarmed (Starting with a nice Niebla punch). Titan didn't get a spotlight here save for his bump into the railing on the outside as Cavernario hit his mid ring Vader Bomb to pin BP. This was a pretty standard start, some game, competitive matwork and rudos being rudos.

Between falls the rudos goofed about, with Felino kissing a woman and Cavernario doing goofy kissy faces. Goofy but kind of awesome too:


The lucha equivalent of southern tag ref distraction is absolutely "goading the tecnico in and having your partner ambush him from behind." And Pesta Negra does it really well in the segunda. At one point Felino drew Titan in only to roll away so his partners could get him. At another, Panther came in only to immediately get double teamed by Niebla and Cavernario; then they danced:


Niebla is a bad example for Cavernario. Case in point: the tecnicos come back because Niebla's so busy slapping everyone that he accidentally hit his partner. To make it up, he kissed Cavernario. This distracted everyone in a two mile radius and let the comeback begin. Titan didn't get to do much here, just a plancha into the ring, but he did finish it with a great headstand into a roll up.


And I think that's evidence towards quality. The body language of Cavernario made that work but he couldn't accomplish it without something worthwhile to react to. I think it does show why the two of them are potentially so great a pairing.

They reset for the tercera and there were a number of pairings. Cachorro and Cavernario worked well together with a lot of elaborate but organic stuff. Titan vs Felino was interesting since Felino, more or less went into business himself, trying to get the crowd to boo Titan. The payoff here (and I'm not convinced this payoff would exist without Panther in the ring to control things) was BP working with Titan and getting the crowd to boo Felino big. I'm sure they've done that spot a lot of times, but I think without Panther as the equalizer, Titan's crowd-favor would have been eaten alive by Felino. Panther in general showed me a bunch of character, containing Felino and then clowning for Niebla's strikes:


Especially masterful is how BP manages to sell his belly after getting punched in the face a bunch in order to do a Shocker-Style pulling of his tights. A real maestro, folks. As you can imagine the spit spot followed and then BP clocked Niebla, because that's what he does. It's amazing how much the crowd loves that stupid spot.

Titan vs Cavernario followed and I thought Titan worked the crowd well in a chop exchange. This was followed by an awesome ducked clothesline/hangman's clothesline, crazy stomping and even crazier Cavernario-ing. Great stuff:


Cavernario ended up the top rope but was bicycle kicked off by Titan who then had to contend with Niebla (he did this by matrix-ing under a clothesline so Niebla could go sailing through the ropes). It was a fun little Titan vs the World Segment tht ended with him backflipping over the top rope for fun (which was impressive bug cognitively goofy).

The finish was fun. I always like when it looks like it's going one way and veers another. Here, the tecnicos had set up an estrella, with Titan about to victory roll Niebla in the middle, but Niebla dropped him right on his partner in sort of an unintentional assisted splash. The falls came quick after that, first with a rudo double press slam and Felino elbow drop, then with a Cachorro Fujiwara arm bar out of nowhere, and then, finally due to the numbers game, the press-up into a Cavernario missile dropkick, which is probably the most underrated finisher of 2014.

This was definitely good for what it was, which was a sort of disposable Pesta Negra match. I was impressed by how well Titan and Cavernario worked together, with Titan's impressive agility bouncing well off of Cavernario's outlandish ferocity. Both of them showed a good deal of charisma too.

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Monday, March 16, 2015

MLJ: Maestro Monday: Blue Panther, Blue Panther Jr., The Panther vs Puma, Tiger, Virus

Aired: 2015-03-07
Taped: 2015-03-03 @ Arena México
Blue Panther, Blue Panther Jr., The Panther vs Puma, Tiger, Virus


I wanted to tackle something vaguely current this monday and I figured I could write about the parejas increibles tournament or I could write about this. I'm a lot more partial to the parejas increibles concept than a lot of people are, because I can forgive crummy matches if there's something I find fun about them, but that doesn't necessarily mean I want to WRITE about it, especially not when there's a super solid, very enjoyable trios match just sitting out there.

This was an older style of match, and I say that not with any real knowledge but just anecdotally. I've seen this style more in the 90s than I do now. It wasn't Exchanges - Rudo Swarming - Rudo Beatdown - Comeback - Reset - Exchanges - Dives - Finish, which is usually what I call A-B-A (though that's not a hugely accurate way to explain it), or the similar counterpart which skips the opening exchanges and starts with an ambush (which is my B-A-C, a little more accurate). The best way I'd explain this match would be a primera of feeling out, a segunda of cutting off, and a tercera of teased paying off shaped by the rudo leanings finally coming into play.

Let me break that down a bit. The primera had the opening exchanges and generally they went to their conclusions. I'll fully admit to getting Puma and Tiger confused sometimes (maybe for the whole match) but Blue Panther was paired with Tiger, Blue Panther, Jr. with Puma, and The Panther with Virus. Anytime Virus and Blue Panther are near each other, you want to see them go at it so that was a bit of initial frustration, but ultimately okay since all of these guys are very good. Of these, the pairing without a maestro involved was the weakest, but all three were good. It amazes me how Virus can move a body around the ring. Just little things like this:


Look at that. It's such a tiny thing, but you're watching and suddenly The Panther's on the mat, and you have no idea how it happened and then you see the positioning of the legs and it's like magic. So these went to their conclusion building from the initial BP/Tiger exchange which was very matbased to heavy rope running and The Panther hitting a tope on Virus. When he went for a second one though, he got caught by Tiger and Puma's double superkick and then their taunt. I have no desire to see a Young Bucks match ever, but were I to see one, I'd want it to be against Tiger and Puma:


Anyway, while they were gloating on the ramp, The Panther locked in a Fujiwara Armbar on Virus and the tecnicos took the primera.

The segunda revisited a lot of the previous match ups but with more intensity. Instead of simply moving on to the next after an advantage was taken, there were cut offs. For instance, Tiger was able to kick Blue Panther out, but The Panther flew in off the top to plancha him and he rana'd him out. Then Puma rushed in to knock him out of the ring, only for Panther, Jr. to come right in with an arm drag, and so on. The rudo advantage finally came when The Panther went for his roll through snap mare double jump second rope kick thing, but Virus, having been hit by it a few times in his life, dodged. Shortly thereafter Puma hit a great tope con hilo through the ropes and Tiger locked in a STF on Blue Panther.

The tercera was about teasing payoff and snatching it away. It began with Virus vs Blue Panther, which was certainly what I wanted. Almost immediately, though, Puma rushed in and interfered, kicking BP in the head. From there we get controlled chaos culmanating with Blue Panther Jr. locking in a submission he had failed to get to work earlier in the match and the Panther hitting a sort of sloppy Hijo del Santo style flipping roll up to take the match. I thought the tercera could have had a little more payoff as they teased Virus vs BP which got heat on the rudos, but they never really paid it off as much as they could have. Other than that this was really enjoyable.

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Monday, October 27, 2014

MLJ: Virus Interlude: Virus vs Cachorro (Lightning)

Aired 2014-10-21
Taped 2014-10-21
Virus vs Cachorro (Lightning)


I really do want to take an extended view at Virus at some point, going back to his minis work. Now's not that point though. This dropped on the 21st, posted onto the internet by CMLL and I figured since I rarely do anything THIS up to date and because I haven't seen much Cachorro, I'd toss in a quick Monday interlude before starting on the next thing. The only thing that brings up a lessened expectation than "lightning match" is tournament lucha, but with these two I had higher hopes. Virus had been in that crazy lightning match vs Valiente, but I figured we'd get something a little more mat based here. I wasn't disappointed.

Virus is humbling in a lot of ways. I don't think I'm much taller than him, if at all, being a fairly scrawny 5'5". It's odd to realize that you'd probably have been shoehorned into being a mini. The whole world seems a little bigger and more foreboding. On the other hand, the sheer skill and versatility that Virus has developed his hugely impressive and inspirational. He grew out of his role and into a niche all his own. Cachorro was all over the Busca de un Idolo earlier this year, and he pops up on the master MOTY list a few times, including the Cavernario/Dragon Lee Jr./Negro Casas v. Virus/Hechicero/Cachorro match I'll get to at some point. He's Blue Panther's son, of course, and Virus helped to train him, which makes this match interesting.

This was paced very well for a lightning match. Usually, you'll see guys just throw a lot of stuff out there without much selling or purpose. This wasn't that at all. The first half of the match, or so, was Virus getting the better of Cachorro on the mat. They'd move from one hold to a counter and then out, with Cachorro looking great just because he could escape, but then acutely selling whatever he'd just been in, which got over the holds, Virus for putting them on, and Cachorro for escaping. There were little leg and arm picks and openings snatched but it always felt competitive.

Towards the middle they started to work in a few nearfalls and a bit of sequence. It all paid off with Cachorro reversing a hold into a stretch muffler and then knocking Virus out so he could hit a tope suicida. After that, they went on towards the finishing stretch, with Virus hitting an armdrag on the way back in to regain advantage and Cachorro appealing to the crowd and working from beneath for a little bit. He made a solid little comeback, highlighted by a roll through of Virus, leaving him in a sitting position so he could hit a quick second rope move on him, followed immediately thereafter by the cut off, which let Virus hit a nice looking revenge spot off the ropes. Finally, Virus went along with an arm drag attempt, which is a great spot more people should steal, and, catching Cachorro off guard, locked in some sort of crazy pretzel submission for the win. They shook hands after the match.

So far as lightning matches go, you might get one with more crazy spots or maybe that was more focused on a specific story element, but for something with a mat-based build and escalation, this was one of the best I've seen (which might not be saying THAT much), especially in the pacing. Cachorro had some moments of near-awkwardness when he was trying some of his more athletic spots, but all in all, he did a great job hanging in there. The sheer versatility of Virus is sort of amazing. It's crazy that he was able to perform so differently in something like the 2009 Valiente lightning match and then do this. He really is one hell of a talent and I'll have to see much more of him at some point.

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Saturday, September 27, 2014

Lucha Azteca Workrate Report 7/12/14

These matches were all from the 6/27/14 Arena Mexico show.

En Busca de un Idolo Cibernetico:

1. Negro Casas, Barbaro Cavernario, Dragon Lee, Cachorro & Soberano Jr. vs. Virus, Rey Hechicero, Guerrero Negro Jr., Star Jr. & Super Halcon Jr.

Ciberneticos tend to be fun exhibitions during the initial pairings, and then kinda pointless once they run through the inevitable string of six eliminations in 4 minutes. Out of the early pairings Cavernario/Star Jr. was really fun with really fast work, with Star breaking out really cool armdrags. Hechicero always finds neat new ways to bump to the floor. Cachorro hits the dive of the match, almost beheading Star over the barrier. Soberano hits a crazy tornillo, Casas hits a violent Thesz press off the apron onto Virus, even Halcon hits a nice flip dive. Hechicero was such a big deal in the tourney that I wish he was given more to do here. He gets to hit a great Fuerza bump and takes a nutso slingshot rana from Cachorro, but I wanted more. Seeing Hechicero work Casas was just a brutal tease as it just showed how desperately the upper card needs this guy in there regularly. Dragon Lee makes Guerrero Negro look like a monster, wiping out onto the side of his head on a clothesline. Virus lets Dragon Lee kick him a bunch, and Lee is a guy with some nice looking kicks. I had seen that Phil wrote this up when it happened, and I am stunned that he didn't comment on Cavernario and Hechicero BOTH pulling down their straps when they squared off. Hechicero also does his weird inverted monkey flip to sort of hotshot Cavernario. And then they have to have a double pinfall elimination, because of the stupid awful Torneo Cibernetico charter of 2005, which states "Henceforth all Ciberneticos must have a stupid fucking double pinfall elimination where both men have their shoulders down in a move that otherwise would never be counted as a pinfall, but for dogshit lazy reasons will be counted as a double pinfall in this instance because fuck you." We get a long Casas/Virus showdown to end it which is really fun. Also made me think how odd it is that these two have been around forever, but this was probably the most I've ever seen the two of them match up. Which is sad. I liked this match a lot more than Phil, I thought it was much better than the other ciberneticos over the last few years.

2. Rush, Ultimo Guerrero & La Sombra vs. Atlantis, Shocker & Mr. Niebla

Super fun match that delivered even more than I expected. Sombra really came off like a star here. Really great 1st fall rudo beatdown, with Niebla getting kicked off the rampway into the crowd, Sombra running around giving big boots to everybody, Rush caving in Niebla with his corner dropkick. Big intensity. Tecnicos get quick revenge in the segunda, and the tercera is really hot. Niebla gets to slap Rush around, hitting him with his big slap on the floor, and then back in the ring when Rush covers his face Niebla just sweeps his legs out. Sombra leans way into Shocker's stuff, and they have a good strike exchange with Sombra throwing his awesome left/right elbows. UG obviously rips Atlantis' mask, and Niebla and Shocker awesomely cheat to win, with Niebla pinning Rush with his feet on the ropes. Sombra unmasks himself but Shocker don't care and just pins him, with the ref not noticing. Fun match.



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Friday, September 19, 2014

Live CMLL Aniversario Review

You can get the stream here

http://deportes.terra.com/en-vivo/26907/

I'll update with some thoughts after every match

Blue Panther/Dragon Lee/Cachorro beat Puma/Tiger/Felino


Fun but not great opener, which I imagine did it’s job in the arena. Had a hot beginning, bit of a meandering middle, and a crazy hot finish. Dragon Lee was as nuts as you would hope he would be. Doing a crazy dropkick to the floor, and a nutty assisted tope con hilo. Panther also broke out a triple tope which is bonkers for such an old dude. Match was sort of neither fish nor foul though, as we didn’t get to see Panther and Felino do their thing, and they might have been better off just making the match all crazy young guys.

Zeuxis won the Copa Femil beating Goya Kong/Marcela/Estrellita/Amapola/Tiffany/Dallys la Carbina/Princess Sugehit


Match with some highs and lows. The luchadoras cleared went all out for the big stage, and this had some big spots, although that ambition led to some stuff that didn’t look particularly good. I hadn’t seen Zeuxis before, she had some very crazy moves, including an asai moonsault and a bunch of nasty suplexes which ended up dropping ladies heads on her knees, although in between spots she would often look lost, she felt really indy. Still I was never bored.

Volador Jr./Mascara Dorada/Valiente beat Thunder/Euforia/Mr. Niebla


Short and mostly uneventful. Nibela has the outfit of the night so far with an awesome Kiss combo mask and paint. Match was mostly Thunder as a giant with everyone trying to knock him down, and he is not very good at wrestling. They had a nice dive train, but outside of that, this wasn’t very good, but it was compact.

Barbaro Cavenario beat Rey Cometa in a Cabellera contra Cabellera


Good match, although a step below a real MOTYC. It had each guy throwing out all of the crazy shit including Cometa opening up the match with a moonsault off of the ring entrance, and Barbaro hitting his superfly splash to the floor which is my favorite spot in wrestling, it is so reckless and violent looking. I still am not used to wager matches as spotfests, which is what this was. I need something a little more violent and a little less exhibitiony for me to truly fall in love with it. Still very much worth watching.

Negro Casas/Shocker beat Rush/La Mascara


Match of the night so far. I am never going to get tired of Rush and Casas beating on each, and Rush was at his douchebag best, smacking the old guys around violently slapping and dropkick them. Casas was firing back and using his guile to catch the younger more powerful team unaware. Rush was a beast in this, as was La Mascara and you really got the sense the veterans escaped with their titles by the skin of their teeth. I also liked Casas getting a bit of revenge for getting steamrolled for his hair.

Ultimo Guerrerro v. Atlantis

Wow. Totally exceeded my expectations. Really felt like a classic mascara contra mascara match. The stakes felt really high, two huge stars wagering their masks, which made every near fall huge. Ultimo Guerrero was throwing huge bombs, and Atlantis was trying to survive and catch him with the Alantida, there was a great moment where Guerrero hits the superbomb, rushes in an gets caught with the Altantida, only to have Atlantis collapse against the ropes unable to hold him. I didn't love the finish with UG hitting his reverse superplex, which is always a kill shot, only to get two, and then get caught in the Alantida, almost felt like Atlantis no sold it a bit. This was a superhero in a mask match, so I forgive it a bit, but I thought it was slightly abrupt. Still this might be the MOTY, I will have to rewatch it, but it felt huge. Postmatch is great with UG surrendering his mask while his family is sobbing and the crowd is throwing money

Such a treat to get to watch this live, and while some of the undercard was slightly disappointing, that main event was a treasure. 

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